TKOP (THAT Kind of Poetry)...
Janet has a good post over at Humanophone today... and I want to comment on it. She says...
I guess I'm still not used to poets who don't read outside their comfort zones, but I found that last statement offensive, in effect calling TKOP fraudulent, trying to put one over on the innocent reader. Too, several (excellent) poets had already posted notes saying that TKOP "is MKOP," and the message seemed pointed in their direction. I sent the author of the post a note pointing this out.
And as someone who likes fence-sitting, I'm where you expect to find me... right on the fence.
I ABSOLUTELY agree with Janet! What's more, I respect her for being part of an online community that doesn't always share her aesthetic. Too often people "stick to their own" and the community turns into a circle jerk. Janet is willing to be open and honest and helpful, but also participatory. Kudos to her!
But at the same time, I think it's important for the "difficult" community, the folks who love (and I'm sometimes in that crowd) TKOP to realize that their own language, the tone of their dialogue, makes other people feel disrespected. The PUSH for harder work, the desire to break new ground... these impulses tend to make folks who want to write more narrative poems, simpler poems, feel as thought the TKOP crowd has no interest in them, or their existence.
Now, we can blame this on ignorance, on the fact that the schools don't teach most of us to read Modern poetry, the divide between high and low art.... but as a fence sitter, I have an interesting perspective.
Like this...
(THIS PORTION OF THIS POST IS BEING DELETED, AS IT MAKES UNFOUNDED COMMENTS I NOW REGRET AND RESCIND)
Billy Collins is gonna die, guys. Then what?
If the TKOP crowd would show more interest in participating, and the "mainstream" would be more open to work they don't understand... we'd all be better off. I'm not saying we shouldn't have "camps" but we should do better diplomatic work. It's just dumb, this infighting.
And Mayhew chimes in, over at Bemsha Swing:
Since it's sort of a snobbism in reverse, it doesn't even seem like snobbism. After all, the victims of this prejudice ARE the snobs, those people who think they are better than us because they can understand what's going on.
... I agree with him too, but one real solution lies in being less snobbish. We need to recognize and validate the place of all kinds of art, without seeming patronizing. Even words like, "exprrimental" and "mainstream" have real connotations. What artist wants to be "mainstream"? Somebody else made up the labels but the fault lies with the folks who apply them. Just because we don't LOVE something or see it as "the project" doesn't mean it isn't valuable.
So I think this is a good lesson for today. And thank you Janet, for being in a community where you sometimes get outnumbered, but for realizing what you get from it.
The lesson? To participate. To dialogue. To be honest but respectful. To be open to new ideas, but also willing to defend your own.
If you engage someone you disagree with, and learn nothing.... it's your own damn fault. Your aren't doing the "difficult" work.
I guess I'm still not used to poets who don't read outside their comfort zones, but I found that last statement offensive, in effect calling TKOP fraudulent, trying to put one over on the innocent reader. Too, several (excellent) poets had already posted notes saying that TKOP "is MKOP," and the message seemed pointed in their direction. I sent the author of the post a note pointing this out.
And as someone who likes fence-sitting, I'm where you expect to find me... right on the fence.
I ABSOLUTELY agree with Janet! What's more, I respect her for being part of an online community that doesn't always share her aesthetic. Too often people "stick to their own" and the community turns into a circle jerk. Janet is willing to be open and honest and helpful, but also participatory. Kudos to her!
But at the same time, I think it's important for the "difficult" community, the folks who love (and I'm sometimes in that crowd) TKOP to realize that their own language, the tone of their dialogue, makes other people feel disrespected. The PUSH for harder work, the desire to break new ground... these impulses tend to make folks who want to write more narrative poems, simpler poems, feel as thought the TKOP crowd has no interest in them, or their existence.
Now, we can blame this on ignorance, on the fact that the schools don't teach most of us to read Modern poetry, the divide between high and low art.... but as a fence sitter, I have an interesting perspective.
Like this...
(THIS PORTION OF THIS POST IS BEING DELETED, AS IT MAKES UNFOUNDED COMMENTS I NOW REGRET AND RESCIND)
Billy Collins is gonna die, guys. Then what?
If the TKOP crowd would show more interest in participating, and the "mainstream" would be more open to work they don't understand... we'd all be better off. I'm not saying we shouldn't have "camps" but we should do better diplomatic work. It's just dumb, this infighting.
And Mayhew chimes in, over at Bemsha Swing:
Since it's sort of a snobbism in reverse, it doesn't even seem like snobbism. After all, the victims of this prejudice ARE the snobs, those people who think they are better than us because they can understand what's going on.
... I agree with him too, but one real solution lies in being less snobbish. We need to recognize and validate the place of all kinds of art, without seeming patronizing. Even words like, "exprrimental" and "mainstream" have real connotations. What artist wants to be "mainstream"? Somebody else made up the labels but the fault lies with the folks who apply them. Just because we don't LOVE something or see it as "the project" doesn't mean it isn't valuable.
So I think this is a good lesson for today. And thank you Janet, for being in a community where you sometimes get outnumbered, but for realizing what you get from it.
The lesson? To participate. To dialogue. To be honest but respectful. To be open to new ideas, but also willing to defend your own.
If you engage someone you disagree with, and learn nothing.... it's your own damn fault. Your aren't doing the "difficult" work.
1 Comments:
As a fellow fence-sitter, and although I'm out of the loop with some of the terminology, I agree with what you say here. Adamant narrow labeling and its resulting childish segregation, which I believe comes from fear and laziness, deprives the whole venture of poetry of its livelihood, which I find unfortunate.
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